Guest Blogger: A Mormon Feminist’s Perspective on Prop 8

A few weeks ago, I read this post on Feministing and thought of my Mormon feminist friend, Chris. I asked him what he thought about the Mormon church’s involvement in proposition 8, which led to a long discussion over the internet. I asked if I could post some of his thoughts on the issue to our blog, so he wrote this guest post:


There are a lot of factors that play into this issue, not all of which I feel qualified to fully discuss, so I’ll link where I can to more knowledgeable sources.

Personally, I think a lot of it is just misunderstandings and different ways of viewing the world, what definitions of gender, etc. really mean. Here is a good discussion of this from a Mormon perspective. I also think on some level it comes down to the fact that the Church has outwardly stated it supports traditional ideas of gender/family (there's a famous thing called The Proclamation on the Family-- I understand if you don't agree with it, but it has become official doctrine of the Church and should help you understand a little better why this is an issue for us) and feels like it should back that up when it's directly challenged, as with Prop 8. I've heard so many arguments on both sides and I don't like how they're playing out on either side (the anti-Mormon talk or the anti-gay sentiment some people strike up in order to explain to themselves why the church would speak directly against this), that I'm quite torn, precisely because this is such a hard issue.

Personally, I support giving full partnership rights for everyone who wants them, but marriage I think is a religious institution and should be defined individually by each religion. I think we should adopt the European model, where everyone goes and gets a civil union from the state and then goes and does whatever religious marriage they might want, and then individual churches can decide to perform or not perform gay marriages. Those who still want “marriage” without the religious context could maybe have separate ceremonies of their own, but marriage would be individually or institutionally based and recognized. But we're a long ways from that. One reason I was a little against Prop 8, though, is because I think any state definition of marriage, whether for or against gay marriage, is abuseable and dangerous. But I think I'm a little in the minority there.

One small clarification which I'm not sure is true but might clarify why so many Mormons were scared: on the objection that many had that the issue doesn’t directly affect Mormons, there was a lot of buzz going around that if gay marriage were legally sanctioned then it would be legally required to accept/perform gay marriages and institutions which refused to perform such would no longer be licensed for marriage, i.e. the Church might lose the ability to performs marriages and they might even shut down our temples in California, which is scary beyond all reason to Mormons. That immediately reminds us of burning temples, being driven from homes/cities/states, massacres, and other really nasty things that happened to us during the early days of the Church, when it was made legal by the "Extermination Order" from Governor Boggs to kill Mormons in the state of Missouri, etc. (Funny thing, the Extermination Order was only officially repealed in 1976.)

The really ironic part of this whole thing to me is that the gay and lesbian community thinks the Church is trying to stamp out their rights but on some level the Church is afraid of the exact reverse: losing their rights again. It's two completely opposite but similarly marginalized groups fighting each other instead of getting mad at the greater society.

I'm not saying this paranoia is warranted (because I really don't know if they could shut the Church down like that, though the idea scares even me a bit) but it's one of the reasons why Mormons really went in on this one.

It’s obvious there are a lot of views that differ about the nature of what gender, orientation and relationship mean, and how we should react to those on a societal level. I consider myself a feminist because I do believe in gender equality and in the freedom of choice, but I definitely think anywhere where the law gets involved is messy, because the law is there to limit freedom for the greater good (we don’t have the freedom to kill people so that others don’t have to worry about being killed). How that greater good is defined is up to the majority. So freedom of choice is a complicated issue, as is gender equality. On some level I do believe that men and women are inherently different, but I believe that makes both more valuable rather than less, because both are unique. I don’t understand everything, or even very much, about to what degree we are the same and to what degree different, but learning more is one of the main quests of my life. Mostly, with this post, I hope you see that Mormons are 1) not all of the same mindset, 2) still people, even if you very heavily disagree with them, 3) trying to do their best to stand up for things that are important to them, even if they might do it in ways that do more harm than good.

-Chris Straubhaar

One Catholic's perspective on Prop 8

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...

I am a devout, practicing, traditional Catholic, and I am against Proposition 8.

This might seem like a paradox, and may not be conservative enough or liberal enough depending on your views, but bear with me. The Roman Catholic faith, to which I am a fervent adherent, maintains the following official position on the matter of same-sex relations:

"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.' They... close the sexual act to the gift of life...Under no circumstances can they be approved...This inclination [however]...constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."

- Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2357-2358

The Catechism goes on to state that LGBT people are "called to chastity". This is the case because the Catholic Church teaches that sexual activity must be both an expression of eternal love and an act open to procreation. Since same-sex relations cannot be procreative, practicing Catholics are bound not to engage in them. Some Catholic theorists go so far as to say that romantic love cannot exist between two people of the same sex.

I can't disagree with the Church on the point that practicing Catholics cannot engage in homosexual acts without committing a sin. And I believe that any form of sexual activity in which a child cannot be created is also sinful (including masturbatory, oral, anal, or "safe" sex between people of any gender). However, I strongly disagree with the latter point: I have seen many same-sex couples who are more loving than a substantial number of their heterosexual counterparts. While I believe that the Church cannot permit her members to be joined in same-sex marriages, American civil law is, or should be, a completely different ball game.

First of all, what ever happened to separation of Church and state? At the end of the day, I'm glad I live in a nation where not everyone agrees with me. Freedom is what makes this country great. Secondly, since when does a government have a right to declare who its citizens can and can't marry? If John Doe can marry Suzy Smith, why can't Jane Doe marry her? In a democracy, the citizens are supposed to have true sovereignty over their government. So how can we let our political leaders tell us who to love, to honor, and to cherish 'til death do us part? I've always felt that part of the American dream was being able to love whomever you love, without apology. No matter what anyone says, I will never be convinced that love is a choice.

I encourage people to be true to their beliefs, whatever they are, and I especially urge all Catholics to follow the Church's teachings. That said, the matter of your sexuality is very personal. Share it with your partner, your friends, your family, trusted members of the community, your confessor, anyone, everyone, or no one at all if you don't want to. Whomever. But who you love is none of Uncle Sam's gosh darn business.

Some relevant links...

Courage, a Church-approved ministry to LGBT and questioning Catholics

The Trevor Project, a non-religious, non-profit resource for LGBTQ youth

Prop 8 Protest in Austin!

This is a long picture post, so I'm sorry if it loads slowly.

Here are a few of the photos I took at the proposition 8 protest yesterday at City Hall here in Austin. We had a much bigger crowd than I expected-- about 2,000 people!


These guys offered me some "homo-made" pumpkin bread.

People lined up along the curb outside City Hall after the speeches were done.



After the rallying outside City Hall for a while, we marched up to the Capitol and around downtown.

Favorite picture of the day.

Passing by Oilcan Harry's, a gay bar downtown.

Wanda Sykes is out!

Wanda Sykes, one of our favorite funny feminists here at SEU Feminist, publicly came out as a lesbian yesterday at a prop 8 protest. She announced to the crowd in Las Vegas that she and her partner were married in California on October 25th. She said she is coming out now because "I felt like I was being attacked, personally attacked-- our community was attacked." I just want to say congratulations and thank you to Ms. Sykes for having the courage to declare your love to the world and speak up for yourself and other members of the queer community.

I was at the prop 8 protest here in Austin yesterday and should have some photos to post later today.

Funny Feminist Friday: Wanda Sykes on same-sex marriage

Happy Friday, everybody! I know I just did a Wanda Sykes post two weeks ago, and there are so many other funny feminists to show you, but tomorrow is the Join the Impact rally, so I thought this clip was particularly relevant:



Austin people, please please please come to City Hall tomorrow, November 15th, at 12:30pm for the Join the Impact rally against prop 8. You can find more information, including a map to City Hall, here. If you're not in Austin, please check out the Join the Impact website to find details about the rally in your city.

Funny Feminist Friday: Ellen!

In light of all the same-sex marriage bans passing on Tuesday-- prop 8 in California, prop 2 in Florida, and prop 102 in Arizona-- I thought I'd share a few clips of one of my favorite queer comediennes, the fabulous Ellen DeGeneres. In this clip from her 2000 show, The Beginning, Ellen shares an interpretive dance about her coming out experience.



Maybe Ellen should start a campaign to protest prop 8 through interpretive dance?
This next clip is sad in light of recent events, but here you can watch her totally trump John McCain on the subject of gay marriage:



And to cheer you up, here's a clip of Ellen dancing with President-Elect (!!!) Barack Obama: